The discussion delves into the complex historical eras of Iraq, challenging binary understandings of its past and present. A professor at Haverford College and author of "Political Undesirables: Citizen Denaturalization and Reclamation in Iraq and Return to Ruin: Iraqi Narratives of Exile and Nostalgia", Zainab Saleh discusses how the Iraq she grew up in—during the Ba'ath Party reign and under Saddam Hussein—was a time of fear and repression, despite the earlier period of high hopes and political aspirations in the 1940s and 1950s. She explores the concept of nostalgia for the Saddam era, which exists even among those who suffered under the regime, because of the basic services that were provided. The conversation offers a nuanced timeline of modern Iraqi history, from World War I's role in creating Middle Eastern nation-states through the Ottoman and British rules, the monarchy, and the Ba'ath Party. A key focus is placed on the 1990s as a major turning point, with the 1991 bombardment and subsequent sanctions leading to the rapid deterioration of infrastructure, increased social problems like begging and corruption, and environmental collapse. We consider the argument that the Iran-Iraq War, the Gulf War, and the US invasion should be viewed as one long, continuous war. Saleh critiques the simplistic narrative that Americans brought to Iraq after 2003, arguing that it institutionalized a sectarian political system. She emphasizes that the American discourse—classifying Sunnis as loyalists and Shia or Kurds as oppressed—ignored the reality of mixed communities and complex political loyalties. Saleh explores the historical use of denaturalization in Iraq, a topic central to her latest book. She details how the British and subsequent Iraqi regimes used the pretext of "political undesirables" to strip citizens of their rights, citing examples such as Iraqi Jews in the 1950s and Iraqis of Iranian origin in the 1980s.
The discussion delves into the complex historical eras of Iraq, challenging binary understandings of its past and present. A professor at Haverford College and author of "Political Undesirables: Citizen Denaturalization and Reclamation in Iraq and Return to Ruin: Iraqi Narratives of Exile and Nostalgia", Zainab Saleh discusses how the Iraq she grew up in—during the Ba'ath Party reign and under Saddam Hussein—was a time of fear and repression, despite the earlier period of high hopes and political aspirations in the 1940s and 1950s. She explores the concept of nostalgia for the Saddam era, which exists even among those who suffered under the regime, because of the basic services that were provided. The conversation offers a nuanced timeline of modern Iraqi history, from World War I's role in creating Middle Eastern nation-states through the Ottoman and British rules, the monarchy, and the Ba'ath Party. A key focus is placed on the 1990s as a major turning point, with the 1991 bombardment and subsequent sanctions leading to the rapid deterioration of infrastructure, increased social problems like begging and corruption, and environmental collapse. We consider the argument that the Iran-Iraq War, the Gulf War, and the US invasion should be viewed as one long, continuous war. Saleh critiques the simplistic narrative that Americans brought to Iraq after 2003, arguing that it institutionalized a sectarian political system. She emphasizes that the American discourse—classifying Sunnis as loyalists and Shia or Kurds as oppressed—ignored the reality of mixed communities and complex political loyalties. Saleh explores the historical use of denaturalization in Iraq, a topic central to her latest book. She details how the British and subsequent Iraqi regimes used the pretext of "political undesirables" to strip citizens of their rights, citing examples such as Iraqi Jews in the 1950s and Iraqis of Iranian origin in the 1980s.
0:00 Introduction
1:50 When Did The Iraq You Grew Up In Start?
2:54 The High Hopes of the 1940s and 1950s
3:33 Nostalgia, Time, and Loss
7:09 The Broad Phases of Iraqi History
9:33 Cultural Renaissance Under the Monarchy
10:00 Vibrant Leftist Politics in the Monarchy Era
11:39 Nostalgia for the Monarchy
13:00 The Largest Effect on Daily Life: 1991 Bombardment and Sanctions
16:29 Connecting the Wars: One Long War
17:59 The Lead-up to Saddam's Invasion of Kuwait
19:33 The Vision of the Neoconservatives
20:40 Misunderstandings about US Imperialism
22:11 The Myth of Iraqi Sectarianism
23:24 The Institutionalization of a Sectarian System
25:27 The Role of the Iraqi Opposition Abroad
28:29 Phases of Post-2003 Iraq
29:12 The Civil War and Proxy War (2006-2008)
30:20 Displacement and the Reorganization of Iraqi Society
30:52 Social Mobilization: 2011 and the Tishreen Uprising (2019)
31:24 The Catastrophe of ISIS
34:29 The Problem with Nostalgic Photos
40:14 When One Dictator Becomes a Source of Nostalgia
41:16 The Book: Political Undesirables and Denaturalization
41:59 The Deportation of Iraqis of Iranian Origin (1980)
44:48 Denaturalization as a Systemic Pattern
48:19 Issuing Passports After World War I
51:00 The Expulsion of Iraqi Jews (1950)
51:25 Iraqi Jews as an Integral Part of Society
52:44 The Ancient History of Babylonian Jews
55:20 The Basis for Expulsion
58:19 Recommended Readings on Iraqi History
Zainab Saleh is Assistant Professor of Anthropology at Haverford College and the author of books "Return to Ruin: Iraqi Narratives of Exile and Nostalgia" (2020) and "Political Undesirables: Citizenship, Denaturalization, and Reclamation in Iraq" (2025).
Connect with Zainab Saleh 👉 https://www.linkedin.com/in/zainab-saleh-669a7b253